Saturday, June 25, 2005

I Post Comments At... There is a great community of left and right posters and the flame wars get REALLY good!

I got into one about Senator Dick Durbin's speech (from Daily Kos) on the Senate floor about our treatment of prisoner specifically at Guantanemo and by extension every where else.

Here's the exchange:

Rujax206 - What is your problem? Dick Durbin making an ass out of himself or Dick Durbin putting targets on the soldiers in Iraq? Please explain your last stoopid comment?
7:04 PM 06/19/05 and still waiting on the first congrats to Clarence Thomas!!!
Comment by Puddybud— 6/19/05 @ 7:05 pm

Read what Durbin said, guy. Not what Hannity says Durbin said…what Durbin REALLY said. If you can take two deep breaths, shut Rush’s voice off in your head and READ what Durbin REALLY said…what Durbin REALLY said makes sense and is a point we…ALL of US…Right and Left…should be having a serious discussion about.
But you won’t take the time. Because this is about making the other side look stupid and wrong. No dialogue, no discussion. “I don’t like what you say, I don’t want to hear it, It’s not what I want others to think, it’s gonna make me look bad, so I’m gonna show everybody that you are a traitor…that’s right! Unamerican. A commie. A Hippie. A pinko fag. A leftist pinhead. WTFever. Because I’VE got the mike. I’VE got the bully pulpit. I roool, YOU DROOOL.”
Go on. Really read it. I dare you. Tell me what he REALLY said, then we can talk. OK?
Comment by rujax206— 6/19/05 @ 10:43 pm

Rujax, I watched on Sunday morning what he said last week as I was using my skillz to pay de billz. I was on airplanes this past weekend. I haven’t heard Hannity or Rush for the last two weeks, as I am working during their broadcast hours. And I will miss them this week working out of town. So why on late Friday when most papers are already in bed with their editions does he come out and make a fake mea culpa?
Okay I need to prove to you I read his words. Well here are some of the most reprehensible ones. But I ask you Rujax, what brings words brought you a smile reading or hearing that spewed forth from Senator Durbin?
Didn’t Senator Durbin say these words: “If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime – Pol Pot or others – that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.”
Didn’t Senator Durbin say these words: “It took us almost 40 years for us to acknowledge that we were wrong, to admit that these people should never have been imprisoned. It was a shameful period in American history,” Mr. Durbin said. “I believe the torture techniques that have been used at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and other places fall into that same category.”
Hmmm…? Rujax: If Senator Durbin was describing the Internment of Japanese, why didn’t he say that “you” democraps were in power when this happened during WWII? Why didn’t he say first that democrap Franlin D. Roosevelt and the democrap Congress of the United States was wrong? Because it didn’t fit his argument, like many things spewed here by HA lefty hate mongers. Still waiting on that Clarence Thomas congrat.
Without you navigating to a search engine can you answer these questions? Do you understand the Killing Fields of Cambodia? Did you see the movie based on Dith Pran? Probably not. Do you know why Dith Pran was singled out like many of his fellow countrymen? Probably not. Have you ever been to SouthEast Asia? Probably not? Have you seen the tens of thousands of skulls in picture documentaries? Probably not? Do you know how many people died there? Probably not.
Now lets go to the Russian Gulags. I have never been to Russia as the company I used to work for had a small business and my expenses could not be justifed. After a friend described the Mockba (Moscow) airport, well, I’m glad I didn’t go. Anyway, why did Stalin have the gulags? Were they for his best buds? Did the people go there visiting a nice resort, enjoying themselves, enjoying some bodily fluid transfers in the throes of orgasmic bliss. Most certainly not. Did you read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago? Probably not. Do you know how many years he was internned at a gulag? Probably not. Do you know what the gulags were for? Probably not. Can you tell me how many people died in the gulags? probably not.
Do we need to visit the Nazis? Oh, that’s right, us wascally Republicans are Nazis per Donald Gelding and Brainless Loocy.
So in closing Rujax, how many people have died at Gitmo? Name them please!! Come on, I’m certain Senator Durbin called you and gave you the correct answer! So shut up with more lefty stoopidity!
Comment by Puddybud— 6/20/05 @ 12:04 am

Hey PuddyBuddy-

I so rarely agree with what you say. I must however give you props for having an amazing ability to conjure up not only a few relevant facts…but a whole bunch of really irrelevant ones, too. Also you MUST be able to type really, really fast. Methinks your fingers get out ahead of your brain sometimes.
You’re right…I had to cheat. While you were doing A LOT OF REALLY PRODUCTIVE THINGS (well documented in other posts-again, mega props to you). I was entertaining the (homeside) troops in Officers Clubs and NCO Clubs up and down the west coast as a bar band musician. So I googled to jog what’s left of my formerly drug and alcohol addled…now clean and sober but still addled (shut up, CYN) memory.
1) Congrats to Justice Clarence Thomas…for what?…making the world safer for Ward Connerly?…I’m not sure I’m getting your reference here, but that’s nothing new.
2) OK, you CAN read. I’m sure we all knew that already (boy…did we), you can also parrott Cat-killer Frist’s comments. Bully. Because I’m a REAL lefty slacker…not like the smart ones here you all accuse…I’m going to STEAL a cogent comment from a smarter blogger than I:
“The Righteous Right is pounding Durbin for mentioning Gitmo in the same breath with Nazis. The Bushmen know the trump card of being disloyal to our troops plays well with the public. Between pot shots from official GWB propaganda operatives at Fox Nooz, Durbin fired back, “My statement in the Senate was critical of the policies of this Administration, which adds to the risk our soldiers face.”
GWB practices a “don’t ask don’t tell policy” toward Muslim detainees and winks in a folksy manner at the Geneva Convention. Durbin is not a bleeding heart Liberal , but an important independent voice in a democracy. He sees the damage to international support and to the principles of freedom the U.S. advocates. Are we bullies? What should that “shining city on a hill,” that President Reagan talked about represent? If we are fighting for democracy we have to represent the change we want to implement in the Middle East.
A quote by Avi Schlaim, an Israeli historian, on the issue of comparisons to Nazi Germany (in this instance referring to Israeli government and military leaders, but the parallel works here as well) says it best: “The issue isn’t whether or not we are the same as the Nazis, the issue is that we aren’t different enough”
So regarding Cambodia. In a round-about way this sort of illustrates a point I’m trying to make: the Viet Nam war was an evil, illegal and immoral undertaking. As policy, it failed whatever objective was set out. That War divided this country in a way not seen since the Civil War. We illegally bombed that country, Cambodia, destroyed its resources slaughtered hundreds of thousands of its citizens, set the stage for Pol Pot and GAVE HIM ARMS and he just did what arrogant killers have done since time immemorial. You know Reagan though it was a great idea to arm Saddam. Oh, and look what he did. And look how we resonded. Oh…we didn’t. The point is…the larger point is…bad policy, bad wars, bad actions, breed bad results. How faithful are we to be to the “American Ideal”? Is this just “Manifest Destiny” all over again. We’ll fuck you and you’ll like it because we’re the US and we do it better and you should really be grateful we chose you to fuck? Is that who we are? Is that who we want to be? We can destroy ANY COUNTRY in this world. TWICE. We’ll create weapons from space that will laser you while you walk down the street. So we’re going to be the biggest thug on the block? The next in a long line of Uber powers that ultimately fail due to their hubris. What about a Pax Americana. Trying to use our power and influence for the ever greater good of all humankind rather than the imposition of our political and military will on our percieved targets of expedience. Oh…not enough testosterone in that model…I’ll try World Domination for Trillions of Dollars, Bob.
This adventure, Iraq, is failing. It is failing because our motive is MORALLY WRONG. Whatever reasons this administration gave to invade this country and kill these people were lies. They know why they really went in…and they haven’t told us yet. But I believe the evidence is incontroverible that it WAS NOT about 9/11. You know, If they had a good reason…let’s hear it. Why was this war in that place such a great idea. AND I DON’T WANT TO HEAR IT FROM YOU GUYS! I want to hear it from THEM. I want to hear why brutalizing our those we say are our opposition (this time) is a great idea. I want to hear them explain why parents have to buy their own son’s and daughter,s body armor. I want to hear from them. NOW.
Comment by rujax206— 6/20/05 @ 9:31 am

Thank you Goldy @ and Loren


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